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| Plato Postage Stamp - Greece 1998 Quotes from Plato
The most effective kind of education is that a child should play amongst lovely things.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. They deem him their worst enemy who tells them the truth.
At the touch of love, everyone becomes a poet.
Virtue is a kind of health, beauty and good habit of the soul. Never discourage anyone who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Access to power must be confined to those who are not in love with it.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.
Perfect wisdom has four parts:
Plato
The Symposium
ISBN 0-14-044616-8
My first reaction to The Symposium was wondering why Vancouver does not have a drinking establishment called "The Symposium" ?
I did find a Symposium nightclub in Lakewood, Ohio, and a
Symposium cafe in Greece www.symposium.com.gr/profile.php
Click Here to Listen to "What is Love?", by Howard Jones
song contender "Love is all there is", The Beatles Class Questions |
Question of Socrates standing still
Does he need a mental health professional? NO
Socrates was doing what he usually did, it was a habit (p. 06-07)
Solitary meditation/ contemplation, to gain wisdom
Description on page 60 and 63-64
Q2
Reaction to idea "every activity in itself is neither right nor wrong" (12)
Am I comforted by " the character of the activity depends on the way it is done?" (13)
This train of thought continues with; "If it is done properly, it is right; if it is not done properly, it is wrong. So not every type of loving and Love is right and deserves to be praised, but only the type that motivates us to love rightly." (13)
Done 'properly 'may not refer to, strictly being done physically, but also being done within the boundaries of laws, morals, and consent.
Love done improperly is common love that is done by inferior people, with sole aim to get what they want, and who act without discrimination (13)
Boys should be at a certain maturity level with intelligence signalled by the "growing beards" (13) before engaging in affairs. (13)
There should be Law against affairs with young boys (13)
Q3
Is there a right way to go about hurting people?
Let them down easy and don't leave any marks
Q4
Would I drink with Socrates? Yes, at least one round, but NOT HEMLOCK!
Q5
Immortality as; ancestors and birth lines, or by being known after ones death
Both, just different scale. Memories maintain immortality "Lest we Forget"
Socrates immortality is due to Plato's writing of him, he wrote nothing himself
Q6
Define love
Pure, non-judgemental, accepting, enraptured, ideal, gentle, caring, courteous, adoring...
I have not known true love - the confusing feelings of 'Love' which are probably something else are, for me,
an ache
It's like a drug- it distracts, confuses and paralyzes me
What is love?
From the mouth of babes
Child age three - buildings
Child age five - Sharing. Kissing. In your heart, believing in them, believing in you.
Youth age eleven - Something that comes from your brain that, it's hard to explain...Like...romance and stuff, that's one kind another one is family.
Q7
Definitions of Love in Symposium
Phaedrus says love is the most honoured god (09) (12)
- Acusilaus says that after chaos came Earth and Love (10)
- Love gives guidance to those who are to lead good lives (10)
- Love enables human beings to acquire knowledge, courage and happiness, both in life and death (12)
Pausania's speech
- Two types of love; Common (loves body not the mind) and one that derives from the Heavenly goddess (13) who has only maleness in her (?)
- The goddess with male and female is too young (13) (?)
- Rules and conventions govern love affairs (14)
- Its better to love openly not secretly
- Better to love boys of distinction and good character
- Bad love is loving the body not the mind and is fleeting, good love is loving the character and being constant
- The lover should improve ones wisdom and virtue
Heavenly goddess love forces lovers to pay attention to their virtue
Eryximachus
- Two kinds of love but love is not only expressed in the emotional responses of human beings to beautiful people, but in many other types of response as well: in the bodily responses of every kind of animal, in plants growing in the earth, in virtually everything that exists." (18)
-Power of God Love extends to all aspects of human and divine life.(18)
- Inherent in the nature of bodies to manifest these two kinds of love
-Health and disease are different states like objects of desire and love are dissimilar; therefore love is different for healthy and diseased bodies
- It is right to gratify the good parts of the body and wrong to gratify the bad parts of the body
- Medical practitioner should be able to distinguish right and wrong love and should be able to take the antagonistic elements and create friendship and love between them
- A good practitioner can bring about changes in the body, so that the body acquires one type of love instead of the other
-Medicine creates agreement in one area, music creates it in another, by implanting love and concord between the elements involved; music, in its turn, is knowledge of the forms of love in connection with harmony and rhythm (20)
-OK to gratify love of well ordered people
- Not 'well ordered people' can be improved (20)
In music and medicine and every sphere, both human and divine two kinds of love are there
-Two kinds of love influence the seasons; harmony brings good harvests
-Lawless and violent love cause destruction (20)
- Astronomy is the workings of love (21)
- Operations of love in human life affect right behaviour and piety (21)
- Love has a great and mighty power (21)
- Love whose nature is expressed in good actions, marked by self control and justice, at the human and divine level that has the greatest power and is the source of all our happiness
- It enables us to associate, and be friends with each other and with the gods, our superiors
Aristophanes
Click Here for Video
- Refers to love as He
- He loves human beings more than any god(22)
- Three human genders
- Male (sun) , Female (earth), and androgynous (moon) (23)
- Rounded shape, terrible in strength and vigour, had great ambitions
- attacked the gods
- not wanting to give up honours and sacrifices from humans Zeus had an idea...
- Zeus wanted to weaken humans wild behaviour
- Zeus cut the round beings in two
- Innate desire of human beings for each other started because the two halves are trying to rejoin
Hence phrases like "my better half" or "significant other"
- When the "other" is found then the love is not just sexual it includes, affection, concern and love
- Everyone longs to be fused with the one he loved becoming one instead of two (26)
-Human race can only achieve happiness if love reaches its conclusion and each of us finds his loved one and restores his original nature. (27)
- If you want to praise god, praise Love, he will restore us to our original nature, healing us and so giving us perfect happiness (27)
Agathon
- In the case of love the right thing to praise is his nature first and then his gifts (28)
- Love is the happiest god because he is the most beautiful and the best
- Love is a young god and stays young forever (29)
-Love hates old age and avoids it
- Since Love has ruled among the gods there has been friendship and peace (29)
- Love is sensitive, does not walk on the ground,; walks and lives in the softest of all things (29)
-Love is gracefulness (31)
- settles on anthing that is full of bloom and fragrance (30)
- Loves virtue - love does no injustice and none is doen to him, love is never forced,
- Everyone consents to loves' orders
- Everyone is a poet who is touched by love
- Love is a good composer - you can not gice what you don't have and you can't teach what you don't know
- Apollo is a pupil of love
- The activities of the gods become organized when Love was born among them (31)
- Love of beauty, love is not directed to ugliness
- All good things come to gods and humans through the love of beauty (31)
- Love is supreme in beauty and excellence, responsible for similar qualities in others
- Love drains us of estrangment and fills us with familairity
- Love inckludes mildness, excludes wildness
- generous og goodwill and ungeneous of ill-will
- Love is gracious and kindly
- Love is gazed on by the wise, admired by the gods, craved by thos who deny him (love), treasured by those enjoying him (love), etc...(32)
Socrates
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| Socrates |
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| Socrates Stamp -US |
- "Bear in mind What love is of" (34)
- Desire is directed at something you need, (...) no one is in need of qualities he already has" (34-35)
- Desire and love are directed at what you don't have, what isn't there, and what you need (35)
- Love is of something that you currently need (36)
This I found interesting
Socrates restates an account of Love that he heard from a woman DIOTIMA from Mantinea, (37)
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| Diotima of Mantinea
For Diotima, the most correct use of love of other human beings is to direct one's mind to love of Divinity.[3] With genuine Platonic love, the beautiful or lovely other person inspires the mind and the soul and directs one's attention to spiritual things.
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- Love is poor, tough with harrdend skin
- Love alway lives in sate of need (39)
- Love schmes to get hold of beautiful things
- Love is brave, impetuous, intense (39), uses magic,
- Love desires knowledge and is a lifelong lover of wisdom
- Love is between wisdom and ignorance
- Beauty, elegance, perfection and blessedness are characteristics of objects that deserve to be loved
- Beautiful = good= happy (41)
- Object of love is not beauty
- Reproduction is object of love
- Reproduction = immortality
- We desire the good and immortality, therefore, the object of love is immortality (44)
- Excitement of Love -
- Character traits change although we are the same person - some emerge others are lost (45)
- The old die and leave a new thing of same type behind (45)
- Enthusiasm for immortality is what love is (45)
- Object of attraction; a mind that is beautiful, noble, naturally gifted
- Becoming a lover of all bodies relaxes intense passion for just one body (48)
- Boundless love of knowledge (48)
- Beauty is (48)
- move through stages; one, two, all beautiful bodies, beautiful practises, beautiful forms of learning, learn what beauty is (49)
- Catch sight of divine beauty itself (49)
- This gives birth to true virtue (50)
Socrates
- Hold love in respect, respect the ways of love (50)
- Love has power and courage
Alcibiades; Socrates drunk and jealous lover enters the symposium ( 50-53)
- Feels the fool who only learns by his own suffering (62)
Eulogy to Socrates
- Insulting and abusive
- Bewitching flute player (54)
- Casts spells with words - overwhelms and spellbouds listeners
- Socrates words make his lovers heart pound, and tears flood (54)
- Makes Lover feels shame
- Like Marsyas Satyr - amazing power (54)
- Like Silenus (55)
- ignorant- excited by attractive young boys
- Inwardly; full of moderation
- Regards beauty and riches with contempt
- Pretends and plays with people (55)
- Alcibiades has been bitten by words of philosophy (57), views Socrates a god like (58)
- Madness and Bacchic frenzy of philosophy (57)
- (58) 'gold for bronze'
- (59-61) praises Socrates character
- Socrates arguments are divine (62); contain images of virtue and examine subjects that you must if you're going to be a good person (62)
- Lovers triangle between Alcibiades who loves Socrates, who loves Agathon, who should be loved by Alcibiades
The men stay up all night drinking and talking (63)
Socrates argues writers should be able to write Comedy and tragedy(63)
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| Marsyas The Satyr |
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| Silensus |
Q8
Response to definitions in symposium
Interesting how so much thought is given to eulogizing love
Love is all there is
The rounded figure is hilarious and very original
I think all the eulogies on love have value worth considering - food for thought
Q9
Love as a chemical feeling in the brain
Yes, it is a state of increased Dopamine but that's not all; it is also a feeling, a response, an emotion; it's a heart thing and much more
It's a complex state
Q10
Is love a good thing?
from love come courage and commitment (11)
the value of lovers prevents people from wanting to be disgraced and lose Honor in eyes of their lover. (10. 11)
Love is good when it's at it's peak of perfection
What is 'being good'?
From the mouths of babes
Child age three - love
Child age five - It's being nice, sharing, loving. Asking "Do you want this or do you want that?"
Asking if they want a turn on the swing that you took
Youth age eleven - Not doing stuff mean or against the law
Q11
Consider how Plato and Phaedrus describe the relationship of Reason and Passion, are they opposites, in conflict?
Q12
Is love a passion, a force to fulfill endless desires?
Love between humans is more a sense of not being alone in the world; having an 'other' to lean on for support, companionship, and fun
Love of an activity or hobby may be to fulfill desire of a way of being or doing
The desire to be fulfilled is that of being in a state of calm, contentment and peace (think Rousseau) and known and adored for who you really are and are not
Q13
Must it be irrational, egoistic, erratic and extreme?
No, Love of one's sexual 'other' perhaps, depending on ones character, but not of family, friends, pets, art and nature etc...
Q14
Must we summon our reasoning powers to combat these ever present passions?
Just go with the flow!
Time and place may be require some taming of the passion
Q15
Or must reason and passion (Eros) be united in the pursuit of the good?
That would be good
Desire, passion, reason, imagination
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